Talk:Saviour's Rocks

Todo
SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 16:16, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Move "Into the Spider's Web elsewhere". Possibly to the Web of Stones, since it's just a precursor for that, and you're locked into both once you start.
 * Add the different endings after burning the tree. - done
 * Add the events post-festival of silk, where you can ship the captain back to Venderbight (and examine what happens if you do that before you take him to the Nocturne - it looks like it might still think you have him - need to follow that logic through).

Old stuff ;)
I'm going to clean up The Web of Stone page, but should that be merged into the main page, like the rest of the sub-stories? If so, we probably want a new template for the pictures for each little sub-event - this whole thing has some amazing art. Any ideas/thoughts? SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 18:09, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey SporksAreGoodForYou! No, it should not. As a matter of fact, ports already have a layout. Those substories are there because they were introduced before the layout was applied. See Isle of Cats for an example of how a port should look like. Additionally, if you look at the Wiki to-do page, you will see that I'm still updating several ports with the remaining content - Visage is next actually! :) If you need any help, leave me a message! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 19:24, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting. While I understand what you're going for, it actually makes stories borderline impossible to follow. Isle of Cats was one of the first pages I looked at on this wiki, because it was the first island I hit where there were lots of strange choices. I remember getting incredibly lost when trying to understand my options, because I had to keep clicking around, and then back and then somewhere else and keep all the threads tied up in my head. What I'm trying to do with (for example) The Web of Stone is provide context to the viewer on what these things actually do. Because, like, so what if my "spying on the sorrow spiders" value is 2? Does that do anything? Hopefully I'm not being obtuse, or rude, but do you see what I mean? I think it's really important that we make this data not only complete, but useful. SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 20:02, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * I completely understand your point of view! :) You see the wiki as a walkthrough and not as a manual, like I do. My objective with the layout is to mimic the game, as in, you need to click back and forth to get where you want because the game forces you the same. If a certain item or quality is unknown to a player, by accessing its page would give all the information needed to make any choices relevant for said player. Obviously I'm not imposing my view as the standard, don't get me wrong. I think there should be a Guide section explaining what a player can do in a specific port/interaction. Additionally, every port/interaction should be 1-click way from the next interaction. These are just some thoughts.. I'm open for suggestions! :) S3Ld0m (talk) 20:31, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Exactly! I have the game! I'm not looking to replicate it in web form. I (personally, obviously) use the wiki as a guide, to quickly try and get an overview of what I should be doing in-game. I think we can compromise though. By putting all the interactions as you want them, but with notes explaining to the player the implications before they click, along with overview sections at the top of each page, I think we'll achieve both our goals. My notes are more casual, and hopefully speak to the reader in broader terms about the choices before them, while letting the actual interactions expose the guts of the system. For example, in the Isle of Cats, I would add an "overview" section at the top with something like "This island is ruled by a Pirate King and produces extremely illegal red honey. You can explore the town to learn more about the people and the honey, but will ultimately have to pick between two patrons, and do some illegal activities to earn the respect of the pirate king and the ability to buy honey directly."
 * On a sidenote, check out The Web of Stone now. The "burn the tree" option is only ever triggered from The Web of Stone, and has only two choices. One immediately sends you back to the Web of Stone, the other finishes the entire story, whether you pass or fail the iron check. It seems to me that having a separate page for these would be weird, given that it's basically a sub-branch of that part of the story anyway. Does that make sense? Perhaps we can have a general rule which is that if something spins to a sidequest with only two choices that don't do much, we keep on on the page that references it? I don't know how many more of these might even exist, but it seemed like the right thing to do.SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 23:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

I'm very much with SporksAreGoodForYou on this. The main reason to consult a wiki is to answer questions, which may come in the form "What happens if I do this?", which can be answered by going to a page that recounts the interaction in its list, or in the form "How can I accomplish this?", which is extremely painful to answer without a page dedicated to the plot/officer/item with an appropriate section. I'd like to see both types of questions handled well. Weregamer1 (talk) 22:54, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hey Weregamer1! Did you get a chance to look at The Web of Stone page? What did you think? Or, indeed, what did you think about the concept for the Isle of Cats? Would that be sufficient?SporksAreGoodForYou (talk) 23:06, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

Comparing their current state, the Web of Stone page (and for that matter the Savior's Rocks page) are quite a bit clearer than the Isle of Cats. I think your idea is a good one. I'd also suggest splitting the interactions table up more, in the way that Saviors' Rocks is, with a section on "Working for Isery" and one on "Working for the Lady of Cages". I remember poring over the current Isle page for several minutes to sort out which unsavory activities each of them would require to complete their threads. Weregamer1 (talk) 23:47, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi there! :) I've looked into both pages and I see what are you getting at. I have difficulties doing the "How can I accomplish this?" part, like Weregamer1 said, due to spending most of my time on the game code rather on the game itself. But I do agree, there should be some sort of way of explaining how things are done and I think SporksAreGoodForYou is on to something! :) I think we can end this rather long discussion here and start a new one if needed on the appropriate place - this is no longer about Saviour's Rocks, right? :) S3Ld0m (talk) 10:30, 21 February 2015 (UTC)